The Gender Trap Part 2.
Who am I exactly?
You are in the process of defining this. Who am I? What do I like and dislike?
But don't do it in a false way, via a mask.
Love grows out of knowing who I am and out of genuine relationship with other people, shared experiences and real intimacy.
- Every relationship starts with pseudo relationship or surface stuff. Hellos and goodbyes, superficial chitchat.
- But if you spend long enough together, and especially get involved working together on something you can start to move beyond that to the deeper, where things really matter to you. During this the guard relaxes and the real stuff comes out. This is a place of chaos, where feelings get hurt and we let each other down. Often at this point we bail in relationships. We don't want to be honest or just can't be bothered with the effort.
- But if we work through chaos and sort those relationships out we can get to a place of emptiness. In emptiness is the capacity to empty ourselves of the need to change the other. I learn to love in spite of the failings and imperfections to the point where those things can even be the source of our growth. God uses others to shape us.
- True community or relationship is when I can relax and enjoy the other just because they are. But we only get there when we take the courage to face the chaos and the emptiness honestly and in love.
Question: Should I wait until I'm sorted out completely before I try and hook up?
Do you agree with this?
You have enough potential to revolutionize every relationship you will ever have.
If you try to build intimacy with another person before you have done the hard work of getting whole on your own, all of your relationships become an attempt to complete yourself and they will fall disappointingly flat.
1. Drive for completion in a relationship is very strong. Oh you just complete me. Not wonderful but sick if you don't understand the compulsive drive for completion in a relationship. The flip side is that you need me and I can be complete and whole if you need me. In leadership situations this is dangerous. I become indispensable to you.
Co dependency is a major issue. The drive to find in someone else what I need and without it or the threat of losing it leads to panic, smother love, manipulation and feelings of claustrophobia.
Codependence, enmeshment, healthy interdependence is the aim.
I do need to know who I am. I have to therefore work on myself and not expect others to fill these gaps.
2. But I find myself in relationship to other people.
These people mirror back to me who I am, what they like and dislike about me.
I can change or not accordingly.
So you can't just do this alone!!!
I need others.
My first relationship was a great relationship, but there was lots of blind love in it.
When the engagement broke, I learnt a lot. I needed to grow up.
It's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Shakespeare.
In my case I found myself through the love of my husband.
He talked me through my fear of myself and through the times I felt so depressed I wanted to die.
I know he felt completely inadequate but he did it anyway.
But as a married person I was co dependent with another woman and that was one of the most painful experiences of my life. Yet the most healing.
All of us have the hole.
A need for intimacy that is greater than our parents could provide and greater than any human being can provide.
The danger is trying to fill this hole with a partner. Lust, infatuation, the ned for companionship to cover up loneliness and emptiness.
We must find God.
The best thing I ever did was put God in that hole.
This friend helped me to stop depending on her and put God in that place.
SELF AWARENESS is the greatest key to this dilemma.
If you are aware of your needs, you can let others help you safely.
But if you have no self awareness around those gaps in your life,
You will most likely demand more of another than they can ever give.
Should I wait? No, not necessarily unless you've just had a break up. But you must make a commitment to working on yourself and not depending on someone else to sort you.
How are you supposed to know who Mr Right is?
Does God direct you who to go out with and marry or stay single? Is there just one person?
- There is no MR Right or Miss Right…
- No one is perfect. You mustn't put that on a partner, that they must be everything to you. That's idolatry
- As soon as one person is unable, sick or does something wrong, then there will be a crisis. And this becomes a catalyst for unfaithfulness
- Long term relationships only work when both partners are committed to making it work. You will realize 5 mins into a marriage that there is some stuff you do not like about your partner. The honeymoon is over and the real work of living together is that. It is work.
- I choose to be with my husband and in that I choose to work with the stuff I don't like and vv.
- In that respect there are probably many people you could marry. Because love is a choice, day after day.
- God gives us a brain. He gives us choices. If we choose to marry or stay single that will be because we have chosen it. It is our responsibility to figure out who we are and what we like.
- Sometimes we will make wrong choices, but how will we know who is best for us unless we try.
- Yes it may hurt, but Christians are so bad at taking responsibility for everyone else's feelings and so we remain babies. Never getting beyond naivety and superficiality.
- But of course put God at the centre of every relationship and decision you ever make.
Richard: What's the deal with sex? The bible sees sexual intercourse in much the same way we might see illicit drug taking today. A lot of people today argue that drug taking should be made legal because those who take illicit drugs are really only harming themselves and they should therefore have the freedom to do this. This is probably the main argument used by the people who want to legalise Marijuana. But if you look into that argument just a little you suddenly discover that in fact it is complete nonsense. We already have a drug that is legal to take and this is alcohol. Here are some facts on alcohol consumption in New Zealand
Used in moderation, alcohol can reduce the risk of certain illnesses for some groups. The alcohol and hospitality industries also contribute significantly to New Zealand's economy. Excise tax on alcohol alone raises about $440 million each year (The Treasury 1999).
However, when alcohol is misused the resulting harms can be considerable. These harms include physical and mental health problems, injury and death on the roads, drownings, violence, fetal abnormalities, absenteeism and impaired work performance. In annual terms, the social costs of alcohol misuse in New Zealand have been estimated as being between $1.5 billion and $2.7 billion (Devlin et al 1996). Another study done by Devlin estimated that the total social cost to New Zealand could be as high as 4 billion dollars in a single year. These costs include such things as lost production, reduced working efficiency, excess unemployment as well as direct costs related to hospitals, ACC and policing.
This represents a huge hunk of our total Health Budget in New Zealand. Perhaps as much as 50%. In other words if you took alcohol out of the loop in New Zealand you'd reduce the total health budget by about 50%. Now whose paying for this? You and I are. You may not drink at all but you're still paying for the drinking of everybody else.
In the same way sex outside a committed long term relationship leads to a huge fallout. It's not just recreation; it's not just great fun. The act of sex is far more than a physical act. It reaches deep into the psyche of men and women and touches their whole self-image and behaviour patterns. It can be addictive and it can be devastating for one or other of the people involved if they find that their commitment is not matched by their partner's. The whole thing requires a huge amount of care and control if we are to remain in charge of our basic urges. We are paying today for a lack of care in this area. Aids, the spread of other devastating STD's, abortion and the break down of family life are all things closely related to a lack of care in the sexual area. (Habits won't be easily broken when married.)
Richard: What things should I be looking for in a partner? Sense of humour, music taste… or is being a Christian enough? What's a good, normal relationship look like? How do I check what's godly and good? One that's not full of dependency. Look for someone with whom you can make a good friendship. Friendship is the best basis for teamwork. Look for someone whose qualities you admire and appreciate. Look for someone who likes you back! Look for someone who is committed to the things you are committed to
Helen: Can guys and girls be best friends (apart from romantic)?
Every part of me wants to say yes to this. Maybe great friends is a better way of putting it. Maybe the kind of great friendship based on agape love.
1. It takes two genders to complete the image of God.
We bring a counter balance to each other. Friendship, intellectual stimulation, sometimes reparenting.
2. We need more than one primary relationship. We need male/female relationships that are safe.
I am convinced that we all need each other.
I need male friends and I need female friendships, alongside of my marriage relationship.
I really enjoy the male friends I have. Apart from Richard who I obviously work closely with,
I relate well to guys. In my profession I am usually the only woman.
Sometimes this drives me nuts because they seem to be on a different planet to me,
But usually they bring a dimension to my life that I really enjoy and need and that is something vastly apart form a sexual relationship.
3. Where parents have failed us I believe it is possible to find parenting in each other.
Now you could call this getting a need met by someone else.
But where else will this take place??
We can be Christ and like a parent or brother and sister to each other and so heal gaps left in our lives.
I am conscious that for many of you Richard and I play a parent role.
We hold in our role and being, what parents' love and support can look like.
We contain or make a place of safety for you to be children and to grow up with some boundaries and some input.
For those of us who haven't heard a parent say, you are great or a nice person, or I enjoy your company, or you're ok, ie given some feedback which actually helps you ground yourself in the world, this can come in the form of safe others in the Body of Christ.
I have had males and females in my life with whom I was great friends and who gave me some of the affirmation I was missing.
The danger in this is that I can become dependent on that sort of input and kill a friendship by needing too much.
Hold people lightly and continue to find your ultimate worth in God.
4. Girls here want to have guys to talk to. They want to interact. They don't necessarily want any more connection than that. Friendship, help to be sociable. They want safe relationships that are based on who they are as a person, not because they are a woman or potentially a sexual partner.
I hear it from both sides actually. Guys want to know how to interact and so do the girls.
I think it's ok. Presume that both of you feel inadequate.
Hope that there are no other strings attached and enjoy one another's company as the other side of the nature of God.
5. PROBLEMS:
Where these relationships take place is important.
Obviously if they take place in a bedroom, then immediately you open yourselves up to other possibilities.
Girls must be aware that the boundary for a guy between being best friend and lover is very small.
But being a best friend is the best precursor to marriage you can find.
The best thing to do is to name the issues. This is what our relationship is about.
When things shift this is what is happening for me, how about you.
Keep it out in the open and make yourself accountable to others.
RICHARD: Eph 5: What's the deal with women in leadership in the church? Discussion: What was Paul thinking when he said women submit to your husbands…
What is the role of a bloke in a relationship which doesn't undermine the dignity of either partner or the God-given roles. Heck what are the God-given roles? If by a 'role' we mean a set of socially defined tasks that could be done by either a man or a woman such as being a leader or being a teacher then the answer would probably have to be a resounding 'no' for several reasons. Firstly, the Bible clearly states that distinctions such as race or gender place no limits on God's love or saving grace and the implication is that we also should view people first of all as people rather than of one particular race or gender or status.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
However this does not mean that gender or race can be ignored. There are appropriate and proper ways of recognising both and we should not ignore the biblical example in this regard. I prioritising of a person's humanity over their gender does not justify sex outside of marriage for example.
Secondly the Bible itself does not seem to place great store by roles. If we look at the Bible as a whole we discover women in all sorts of roles that might usually be associated with men and men in all sorts of roles we might normally associate with women.
For example, we find quite a few examples of women leading men in the Old Testament. Deborah was a Judge and lead Israel as such for some years despite being a wife and presumably a mother. There are numerous examples of women prophets and women teachers and the OT chooses a female in the role of Wisdom in Book of Proverbs.
When we get to the New Testament, we discover a similar sort of picture. Women preach, teach and prophecy. They are also likely to have been Apostles since Romans 167 mentions a woman whom Paul calls an Apostle. We also discover that Apollos has been taught by two Christians Priscilla and Aquila, clearly one of whom is a woman. Woman are included in the list of people who were witness to the resurrection - a very unusual thing since women in Jewsih culture had no standing in a law court. They could not be witnesses since they were considered unreliable and yet the Church considered them to be as good a witness as men.
Clearly, however, biological factors have placed limits on what role has been most practical for women and men to take. As our culture has overcome those barriers so women have taken a greater role in various areas. And there is little doubt that women and men are simply hard wired differently. Not to take notice of this and to take advantage of it would be simply foolish.
Finally the biblical position in regard to male and female is that we were made to be a team. The image of God is vested in this team and to replace this team with some other sort of team is to deny that image and to worship something else.